Assault Class

[GTFO. al]

and just to sum up what our poll said, there are more people who voted for lower numbers of assaults then those who voted for keeping it the same.

So i think the poll proves we need to knock it down a bit.

But no one has yet provided a good reason as to why the number should be lowered? Infact I'm still of the opinion it should be unlimited.

Just because you don't use a class or dislike it or hate that some of the time someone lucks a headshot on you is NOT a valid reason for limiting it's use. Fact is you can be flooky with any weapon. It just looks like sour grapes.

What people are proposing when they suggest limiting some weapons is basically hamstringing the gameplay. The classes were invented for a reason - they all have their uses and benefits as well as draw backs. Assaults can be used just as skillfully as any other class just the same as rifles or snipers can be used badly by idiots. Unfortunately theres no shortage of clowns in this world...but they don't all use assaults.

It also goes against the reasons why GTFO servers were created...those reasons being: a place for people to play for fun with sensible admins and without ridiculous limitations. We accepted that snipers and MG's needed limited because of their tendency to really screw up gameplay but they are unique cases. I'm still not a fan of how limited they are and i'd bump them up by one and i've never been that keen on the limits imposed on assaults but 5 means you're usually able to get to use the gun if you want it so people can live with it.

You're also misinterpreting the poll for your own ends. You seem to favour 3 but why select 3 specifically? It's only supported by like 1/4 of the small number of people who've voted. Why go for that? Theres a big difference between having no assaults and 4 assaults but you lump all of those together to form a "majority"? Doesn't seem to be a robust or correct analysis to me.

[Echelon]

You're on to something here, al. A few years ago, when i joined as admin, GTFO was all about the "freedom". Only rules we had was "no gay porn" and "no cheating".

[GTFO. Jamie]

and just to sum up what our poll said, there are more people who voted for lower numbers of assaults then those who voted for keeping it the same.

So i think the poll proves we need to knock it down a bit.

Theres a big difference between having no assaults and 4 assaults but you lump all of those together to form a "majority"? Doesn't seem to be a robust or correct analysis to me.

The way i read the poll, is just simply on numbers. And that there are more votes casted in total for having it set at a lower number then people who voted for keeping it the same number. Admittedly, we need a higher number of votes here to make a informed decision.

In my view, Its not really a case of it just being a flukey weapon, its because it has been altered to make it alot more powerful then it previously was, and by looking at the stats for DODS, it now has the highest headshot ratio too. This is a 'new change' relatively speaking and back in the day before the changes, when it was not restricted, it was not as big a problem. It was a decent short range weapon for storming and clearing rooms etc, but it now has nearly just as lethal a use as a long range weapon. Ive seen assaults sat in the sniper attic at the window and still headshoting people.

I do think that the fact it is being used more then any other weapon on DODS servers, and that i have come across servers that have it restricted lower, not to mention there are apparently leagues that have restricted all together, this points that it is possibly a problem with the weapon attributes itself and its not just a complaint from the odd players who dislike the gun.

Being one of the most active DODS admins, if not the most active, i am just echoing what i get told on a daily basis which led to this thread being created

[GTFO. kk20]

But it does work both ways, you are also a skilled player J. Ive come to dods from TF2, I found assault an easy weapon to play but not in all maps. I find it useless in palermo and colmar. Jagd, donner and ava I found it good for ambushes and I dont play flash as Im utter crap at it. If it wasnt for assault then i'd have given up.

The other weapons take skill to use, but how can you gain skill if you cant get into a map to play it? Now ive graduated to mainly using support with the odd rifle and pretty much ignore assault - unless it is close quarters fighting. We should cater for a wider variety of people not just the elite who are excellent with rifles and feel off when a new guy flukes a lucky kill. Rifles should engage the enemy at a greater range before the assaults can get in close. IMHO assaults should kill more people at close range.

Overall I think leave the assaults alone, skill will generally prevail with the odd fluke to stop you getting too cocky

[GTFO. OneManAndHisGun]

Absolutely agree with KK. I think a lot of the dislike for the assault is people who get skilled with the rifle and use it all the time, don't realise that in maps such as Donner, Flash etc, where there's a lot of close-quarter stuff, the assaults (and the KAR/BAR) will win most of the time. You've got one shot to get it right, the others have a whole magazine! Other maps, where there's a lot more long range stuff - Colmar, Ava etc, the rifles are a lot better option.

I got accused of being a "noob sprayer" the other day on Donner - running for the last two flags I took four Axis out in one go - all lined up behind each other in an alley. I ran straight at them, firing continuously and all four died - exactly what would happen in real life - and what the assault weapons are made for. But out in the street against someone 50 or more metres away, an assault is at a real disadvantage, as that's what the rifles are made for.

The limits are fine as they are. Except the rockets. Ban them by all means!

[GTFO. Jamie]

But out in the street against someone 50 or more metres away, an assault is at a real disadvantage, as that's what the rifles are made for.

however, if you aim at that person who is 50 or more meters away and shoot for a few seconds, you will most likely get a 100 in 1 headshot on them.

[GTFO. kk20]

I love the rockets. In fact I love the carbine too.

[Troops]

I ran straight at them, firing continuously and all four died - exactly what would happen in real life

Yes and all four had a single bullet wound in the head

[GTFO. al]

But out in the street against someone 50 or more metres away, an assault is at a real disadvantage, as that's what the rifles are made for.

however, if you aim at that person who is 50 or more meters away and shoot for a few seconds, you will most likely get a 100 in 1 headshot on them.

So?

You've aimed at them and fired and got the kill. On other occasions the guy 50 metres away will have a sniper or be some pro with a rifle and will have shot you dead within a second.

[GTFO. Jamie]

But out in the street against someone 50 or more metres away, an assault is at a real disadvantage, as that's what the rifles are made for.

however, if you aim at that person who is 50 or more meters away and shoot for a few seconds, you will most likely get a 100 in 1 headshot on them.

So?

You've aimed at them and fired and got the kill. On other occasions the guy 50 metres away will have a sniper or be some pro with a rifle and will have shot you dead within a second.

im just trying to point out that they were never this accurate and headshots were not as common as they are now. Which is the reason why they have become a annoyance in my eyes.

[GTFO. OneManAndHisGun]

however, if you aim at that person who is 50 or more meters away and shoot for a few seconds, you will most likely get a 100 in 1 headshot on them.

Not always, and not very often. I suppose out of a 30 round magazine there's a reasonable chance of a headshot if you're pointing it at someone, but I don't find it's as common as you make out.

I ran straight at them, firing continuously and all four died - exactly what would happen in real life



Yes and all four had a single bullet wound in the head

Yep, as I aim at the head and from 10 feet away it's quite likely

[Krycek]

I voted 2, I think that's enough.

Looks like its getting worser and worser on Flash.
Peeps hiding behind sandbags or going around corners shooting.
Its getting more and more Rambo style

Also reg. folks joins less, looks like it..

[GTFO. Bunny]

I voted 2, I think that's enough.

Looks like its getting worser and worser on Flash.
Peeps hiding behind sandbags or going around corners shooting.
Its getting more and more Rambo style

Also reg. folks joins less, looks like it..

Jeeeeez.....took you long enough to join up ...

welcome ....get Purk in

Bun

[Krycek]

Haha, thanks Bunny.

Yeah yeah I know, I am not that fast

Hehe, I will ask if she joins up

[Selkino]

I woted 3, but right now I think 5 is just allright.. as I often go assault and then just pick up a rifle or some other gun that way I'll have a pistol and a smoke granade too
well no melee, but that sux in dod anyway.

but yea, rambo style running toward me from 100 yards and bang headshot style players can go to go to ****

[Joesoef]

Good to see this discussion is still going on

[Noobish]

I voted 2. I hate that weapon so very, very much. Regardless of the distance between me and the guy shooting at me, I get hit in the head 75% of the time. And more often then seldomly, the very first shot is a lucky hs. Rageragerage

[Drugie007]

i voted 3, simply because in certain situations they're very useful to have (smoke, clearing buildings ect ect) and very simple for a noob to pick up and use which might keep them playing the game longer. which is always a good thing

however, but the fact that they seem to hs the 1st shot at 50+ metres, have an insane ammount of ammo to spray with and have no discernable bullet spread at long range

but it seems that more and more it isnt just noobs using the gun, its people just lying in dark corners, behind sandbags and obliterating anyone that comes into sight (although theres a fair few doing it with support as well)

3 would encourage more people to go support/rifle and learn to aim/control recoil but still leave enough available for those who want them

[Master Exploder]

I have only just started playing this game and had a lot of abuse for going assualt

and i am seeing alot of people on here saying it's only becuase they are proned and camp that i dont like them

i still get abuse and i never stop my aim is to blow the aa gun or whatever usually on my own

and yet i get hit by the same "skilled" person with the same gun in the same place every time

[Drugie007]

ye ull prob get alot of stick for using the assault but like u said ur new to the game and its the simplest gun to pick up and start using.

as u start playing more u will prob see where the problem with the camping comes in, with the high rate of fire and 0 recoil u end up with people behind sandbags, rocks, doors just waiting for people to come past and not actually moving until they die. but its not just the camping thats the problem with the gun. its the fact that u can just run like a maniac never having to stop and aim because theres no recoil and the shots always go to where they are aimed where if u tried it with the support class ud end up missing 9/10 and possibly pointing straight into the sky.

[ozz40]

I have only just started playing this game and had a lot of abuse for going assualt

and i am seeing alot of people on here saying it's only becuase they are proned and camp that i dont like them

i still get abuse and i never stop my aim is to blow the aa gun or whatever usually on my own

and yet i get hit by the same "skilled" person with the same gun in the same place every time

I am in the same boat here, although i have not had the abuse, if i have i have not spotted it... probably because i a concentrating to hard on staying alive...lol.
maybe the assault class should be lowered,then if it is not available you are forced to take another weapon, and you will either improve your skills or leave, personaly i take the rifle if no smg is free and god it's hard, but i have improved.. SLIGHTLY. I like rifles and have always used them ever since MOHHAA-SPEARHEAD, and i hope i can get good with them on DoDS.

[ozz40]

AAAAARRRRGGGGGG!!!!!!! STILL TRYING. todays record...Kar98 1kill-15 deaths.

[Drugie007]

try using the support. full auto like the assault but has recoil that you need to control to use it effectively. for the kar when your firing make sure you are stationary when you fire, if your moving you get a penalty to aim which makes it almost impossible to hit anything. theres generally no need to croutch/prone and no need for ironsights (unless u need an extremely precise shot, e.g. long distance with only a tiny bit showing)

[deathtap]

After reading Al's points, I am inclined to agree with him. Perhaps less is more? Less limitations, that is. A team of Snipers has no chance in beating a team that is balanced, and an army of machinegunners are at the mercy of grenades and flankers.

It would certainly mix things up...

[GTFO. Jamie]

After reading Al's points, I am inclined to agree with him. Perhaps less is more? Less limitations, that is. A team of Snipers has no chance in beating a team that is balanced, and an army of machinegunners are at the mercy of grenades and flankers.

It would certainly mix things up...

unfortunately servers without class limits are rarely fun places to be. Whilst i agree that a team full of snipers/MG's will probably lose, this wont necessarily make people change. And will just suck for the poor people stuck on a team where most people are interested in sitting at the back with sniper/mg.

i think the limits are okay at the moment. The assualt class is always going to get on peoples tits as Valve did (whether people agree or not) mess around with the weapon and made it alot more deadly. Unfortunately, it will always be associated with noob players, even though every weapon has its use in the game.

Some servers like HomeGuard have it restricted to 3 per team which works very well, and some servers like UKCS have it unlimited. It all depends on who is playing in the server at the time. Sometimes there may be 5/6 assault players per team, sometimes just 1.

[deathtap]

I find that the assault on GTFO servers are a lot more powerful than others for some strange reason. I was playing on Frenchies and Assaults were getting decimated (there is no limit). However, whenever I play on GTFO servers, they tend to have a high KpD count.

[GTFO. Jamie]

I find that the assault on GTFO servers are a lot more powerful than others for some strange reason. I was playing on Frenchies and Assaults were getting decimated (there is no limit). However, whenever I play on GTFO servers, they tend to have a high KpD count.

sounds strange, and i don't see how it can be likely. May just be a coincidence and will depend on how skilled the player at the time using it is

[Suomis]

Some of you say that every class has a reason and thats why they should not be limited. Lets take this same situation to Tf2 then. Why do you limit snipers and spies? The classes are there for a reason, no reason to limit them then.

Yes, the classses get whored, thats why there is a limit. And the limit to assaults should be stricter. 2 or 3 is well enough. Right now there are 5 assaults, and their weapons are lying all around the map, which makes the limit of assaults even looser.

If assault were a class that would be short range only, it would not be a problem, but right now it can kill snipers from the other side of the map. Assault does not need a slightest drop of skill. It is W+M1. No matter how good the opponent is, the assault still has a good chance of getting the lucky headshot before he gets killed. Garand needs 2 bodyshots to kill someone. Assault needs a short burst, and that burst can be shot within the time that the garand can fire two shots. The Kar needs one shot, but with the kevlar arms, the chance of getting a ones hot kill is smaller. If you happen to have your crosshair 5 inches lower than should, you will not get a one shot kill.

Now you will rant about "it needs skill to use kar and garand and and and"... Yea it does. BUT IT DOES NOT NEED SKILL TO USE ASSAULT, which puts the kar and garand users in an unfair position. The assault has an advantage over riflemen.

Supports are in par with the assault, they can not w+m1, but the chances of killing an assault with support are quite 1:1. BUT yet again, the support needs more skill to use. The recoil is many times bigger than with a tommy or mp44.

Snipers are often harrased by assaults. Nothing else to mention here, except that why do you think that snipers sit back these days? Because they will get instakilled if they leave their position, unless we are talking about a skilled sniper. Some snipers are good and actually play offensively, like you should, but most snipers are just crouching or proning somewhere...

MGs... They kill assaults. Period.

Rocket... At point blank assaults win, at further ranges... Assaults win. Why? Because the zookas are inefficient as hell. You need to direct hit or hit very very close to kills with zookas, and by the time you've reloaded your bazooka, the assault has already popped his lucky headshot on you and the five guys beside you.

I also noticed a trend last night. Assaults run around the map smacking the fuck out of people on flash. Sure this is not a big problem, usually it is stupidity that you let an assault behind you, but what makes this kinda unfair is that assaults dont need to change weapon for melee. If something goes at all wrong, they just let go of m2 and press m1... What happens? Either a lucky headshot as usual, or then enough bodyshots have taken place.

As I said, assaults need to be limited to 2 or 3 max. If they don't get limited due to "freedom of choice" or something else, then why do you limit classes like snipers and spies in tf2. They get whored too, the difference is that they are not OP...

[GTFO. Coxy]

If we didn't limit those type of classes in TF2 then the game would get very one sided from having loads of spies and snipers etc. I don't like Assault either, but I think 5 as a limit is fine.

[GTFO. Ragostini]

Assault is a great weapon for newbs to pick up and get straight into the game.
A recent trend I've noticed though, is more experienced players are going assault and just camping/proning to get cheap points.
I'd be more in favour of keeping the current level, but adjusting the points modifier for it down to 1, this may go some way to discourage the out and out stat whores from just camping with it.

[Rockford]

This Old argument raises it's head again and again. I have never experienced a more boring game than one with just rifles and snipers. For me, there is few things more satisfying than punching a sniper or an idiot camper. Do it a few times and the camping soon stops and the dynamics of the game change completely. Used well and it will win a round, unlike some of the camping rifles and snipers I've seen.

You will always get the points whores, and I can think of a couple using assault recently, but I can think of a lot more in rifles sitting far away from the action. Please don't change the assault class in either numbers or points for both the newcomers and those that use it as a strategic weapon.

[GTFO. Jamie]

i agree with some of what Suomis has said, and it doesn't take much to use the assault class and too many people, including new comers to the game, will just pick this weapon and never use anything else once they realise how little effort it takes to get kills.

Since Valve made an update to DODS (few years ago now) and overpowered the assault class, assault players will always get hounded for it if its the only thing they use. Threads questioning the changes at the time and petitions made on the steam forums, were removed.

Thankfully most assault players are often quite rubbish, so a decent riflemen or support will often get the better of them, if they dont get instantly headshotted by the assault player spraying with panic

[teemu92]

I dont see the bad thing about going prone, its actually worse, you eliminate your mobility for a harder to hit target, but you're screwed when that grenade lands on ya.

[Suomis]

I dont see the bad thing about going prone, its actually worse, you eliminate your mobility for a harder to hit target, but you're screwed when that grenade lands on ya.

It isn't as much a problem than it is just plain annoying. The feeling when you go into a room and there is an assault proning in a corner staring at the one door in hope of easy kills and points is just terrible.

[GTFO. Sly Raccoon]

The whole camping with a powerful weapon happens in every game. As far as I'm concerned this is a valid tactic, annoying yes but if your shot a lot and left on low health and you jump into the nearest house to avoid fire I would go lay in the corner and hold the fort instead of just standing in the open waiting to be shot or clipped by the grenades(which quite frankly are over powered in DODS) But from what I can tell 5 assault is fine and I'm not even sure we limit classes in TF2 anymore as its not much of a problem.

[Suomis]

The whole camping with a powerful weapon happens in every game. As far as I'm concerned this is a valid tactic, annoying yes but if your shot a lot and left on low health and you jump into the nearest house to avoid fire I would go lay in the corner and hold the fort instead of just standing in the open waiting to be shot or clipped by the grenades(which quite frankly are over powered in DODS) But from what I can tell 5 assault is fine and I'm not even sure we limit classes in TF2 anymore as its not much of a problem.

Yea, but way too often it is a guy with full health...

[arigatou]

I do not sniper rifle battalion, because it does not help the team. The cap logo is the easiest way to get points if you infiltrate and kill the guard of the PPL?

[Rockford]

I do not sniper rifle battalion, because it does not help the team. The cap logo is the easiest way to get points if you infiltrate and kill the guard of the PPL?

OK....I know he is trying to say something....

Maybe we all get new signatures

[GTFO. Systematic Slayer]

I do not sniper rifle battalion, because it does not help the team. The cap logo is the easiest way to get points if you infiltrate and kill the guard of the PPL?

OK....I know he is trying to say something....

Maybe we all get new signatures

Done.