Assault Class

by **Joesoef** » 24 Feb 2009, 11:16

Currently there can be 5 of this class for both teams. As we all now they're a pain in the ass for every other class because especially the Thompson is way too good. Last night on steamchat we had a little conversation about this so called 'noob class'. Obviously it's one of the classes that beginners can actually get kills with because DoDs has a high learning curve. On the other hand, any decent players can run around and get an insane amount of kills/headshots in just a couple of minutes. I've started games where I got behind enemy lines with a Thompson or in the enemy sniperhouse and got stats like 30-4 in just a couple of minutes by spraying anyone who got into the house to death. Even at longer range you still get a lot of headshots. What do you (regular) guys think about the amount of Assault players on the servers? Should it be limited? Or is 5 just fine ?

Al & G will have the last word on this for obvious reasons, but I'm still curious what everyone else thinks.
Maybe if a lot of regulars would like to see the amount of Assault players to be lower they might change it.

Please respond what you voted for and why.

I voted for 3 max. Even though they're a pain in the ass you need them on your team for smoking and clearing out buildings.

by **GTFO. Jamie** » 24 Feb 2009, 12:04

well im happy that it was limited down to 5, but i still think we could do with it being lower, as there is often 5/5 assault slots being used...

We have had votes on this before i believe the majority voted for it to be set at 3 (cant remember exactly, will need to find the previous poll)

No one can deny that they have been overpowered, and now offer a unfair advantage when you consider their increased COF and Headshot ratio.

A limit of 3 sounds like a good idea, if only for a trial basis on donner...

by **deathtap** » 24 Feb 2009, 12:10

The long-range head-shot is what pisses me off the most. I'm on the other side of the map and they spray me and I still get killed with a rifle. I really don't mind in the buildings because I am awesome and can kill them in 1 shot at close range. But that long-range! It's a Sub-Machinegun! WTF!?!?!

by **Miury** » 24 Feb 2009, 14:29

pfff, hating mediums, I played them only when I was the total noob and I never play them about 6 months now. I think 2 or 3 is a good idea, but the best is 0 & assaults only for donors :))

by **naknA** » 24 Feb 2009, 20:30

I say 3.

Thompson and mp40 have identical stats. One isn't better than the other. Any decent player that knows how to control recoil and aim for the head will get better stats using a real weapon. The assaults get a lot of headshots because they are so random. You can't aim with the gun, it just sprays bullets EVERYWHERE, and the fact that it spits them out so quickly just adds more random headshots.

Playing assault is, in my book, for newbies. However, it can also aid your team if you know how and when to smoke a flank or rush that building. Most assaulters are just newbies, running around spraying bullets everywhere, or proning somewhere stupid (middle flag, when the team is going for the last flag, for example).

The rate of fire coupled with the damage (30 legs/arms, 40 chest/stomach and 100 head) gives them a lot of free kills.

I can't really stand assault newbies, especially the proning newbies. A couple of days ago I got pissed and blew up on a guy who prones ALL THE TIME with his newbie weapon. He didn't really care what I had to say, but that day I saw him actually try to cap flags and push with his team, instead of pronecamping near a flag, hoping for easy pray.
Of course, a day later he was back to proning again, but I didn't blow up that time.... (I have the patience of a saint :cry:

)

Proning for more than 5 seconds should be auto-kicked. Proning with mp 40/thompson should be instant kick and ban for 1 hour.

EDIT: Proners and assaulters are the WORST thing I know. This post was actually nice compared to what I could have written. I have some serious hate issues when it comes to both combined as well...

by **GTFO. Bunny** » 24 Feb 2009, 23:41

Assaults ....way too easy. But without them the game would be completely goosed.

I been carrying out my own personal tests with this gun . I used to use it a lot when i first played DoDs. It was the reason I stayed playing it rather than CSS or other things. The gun is quickfire, has a big enough clip, easy to reload and plenty of mags with it .

I don't really have a problem with it now as I have got used to it being a headshot machine , and , to be fair I have been using it extensively this month as I really wanted to room clear and charge forward as much as possible, which is really what the thing is for.

When I say extensively, I mean around 16% of my kills at this time is assault class...so I have a good mix of all weapons. (before the weapon whore thing arises!!!)

I do find that far too many players are proned with it and just lie there picking off kills...this is a problem on a tight map such as Flash etc...but tbh....a few good riflers on either team can sort them out easily although they may still get a lot of headshots.....

How many of the top 10 are assault whores ?

Before you all go trying to check , I'll tell ya's.....none ....the highest has 30% and most are using support weapons . So I don't think it is now being over used with the limits that have been set.

When the update arrived it was a real problem...had teams with 9 assaults and 2 snipers and an mg ...was dammed impossible to rifle them at that stage . But since the limits have been dropped it has become less of a problem . I have taken a different approach to it when the head shotters are in town.

I tell em on chat " If ya wanna spray ...get a load o this"....grab a tommie and wade in to them ...You will be surprised how quickly they get pushed back to their camp spots and you can reload a rifle and get killing ....Works every time !!!

Leave it as it is ...any less and the complete newbie will go and play css and we will be short of players.

Think of it like this...if you remove the assault completely they will grab stg44 or bar and learn to control the recoil ....it won't make them move any better they will still camp and tbh ...the stg44 is getting as bad as the tommie with the headshot thing ...take a look at the stats, 26% headshot tommie and 23% stg44....imagine that when they are lieing in a dark corner with the size of that mag and the penentration of the bullet...you will be cannon fodder for them .

I have been using the stg 44 as an effect weapon against camped snipers....on single shot it can pick off a sniper in a window almost as effectively as a kar....u normally get the WTF !!...from the sniper as well ...which is nice .!!

bun

by **naknA** » 25 Feb 2009, 02:50

I think the cap should be lowered from 5 to 3 because so many assaulters are proned campers. I see it all the time on flash (which I play on, almost exclusively), and forcing them to play another class would be much better, IMO. Yes, they might go with the BAR/MP44 and prone with that instead, but those are support weapons.
Once they realize that they have much higher accuracy while playing support it just might make them better players who doesn't rely on pronecamping.

by **GTFO. Sammo** » 25 Feb 2009, 09:10

Leave things as they are. there's only 5 of em dont need to mess about with em , its a good weopon for newbies to learn with . i would sooner see em with the assualt rather than the sniper shooting damn sign post . no need to change it :twisted:

by **deathtap** » 25 Feb 2009, 11:12

Vavle needs to nerf that gun. Either make it do less damage, or lower the firing rate or lower the head-shot ratio per distance. I don't mind getting plugged full of lead in a close environment, but if I have a rifle, and the guy is shooting at me from across the map and pulls of a random headshot...

Yeah.

Not cool.

by **naknA** » 26 Feb 2009, 02:00

Random is random. Shit happens. You will die from the newbie gun when he's strafing, firing, not even aiming at you.

That doesn't mean the gun is unbalanced or it does too much damage. It means that it's random.

What valve really ought to do is introduce a penalty to anybody who stays in one position for too long (MGs and snipers excluded). It should either slap them for 50 damage or instantly kill them. That'd make the game more fun. :mrgreen:

by **GTFO. al** » 26 Feb 2009, 04:24

i'm personally in favour of looser limits on all servers, including sniper and MG

by **Joesoef** » 26 Feb 2009, 07:38

GTFO. al wrote:i'm personally in favour of looser limits on all servers, including sniper and MG

Are you serious? Can you imagine winning rounds on Flash / Donner against (or with) 2 or 3 MG's and 3 or 4 snipers ?

It's all about winning those rounds isn't it? At least, when I play that's what I try to accomplish. Unlike 70% of the other players

by **GTFO. Sammo** » 26 Feb 2009, 09:20

Would be a laugh Al lol... :twisted:

by **Sephiroth** » 26 Feb 2009, 10:33

4 assaults sound good to me. It forces the assaults to try and help the other team. I myself am currently working on my accuracy with the rifleman class but when I get angry with all the thompson noobs I just go support. Gives the thompson proners a good lesson, just as Bunny says.

Mostly play flash and the need for restrictions on the assaults there is really needed. Remember how it was without the restrictions...
There was a server network called Surftown in Denmark who kicked all that were AFK or stayed to long in one position, including snipers and MGs. They warned you first then they kicked you, automatic. Worked wonders on their servers but don't think it will work very well here. Surftown also used the old DOD, not source.

by **Miury** » 26 Feb 2009, 14:47

3 or 4 snipers could be hell fun :) But more mgs? I dont agree, I cant run away from them when there is 1 mg, what about 4? When people take mgs from floor, there can be 6 mgs... :/ or more. But yeah, I love to snipe, thats why I vote for this :D

by **GTFO. Jamie** » 26 Feb 2009, 15:08

4 snipers has been tried, as has 1, two seems ideal

by **Joesoef** » 26 Feb 2009, 15:27

GTFO. Jamie wrote:4 snipers has been tried, as has 1, two seems ideal

The good point of 4 snipers is that once you get into the enemy sniperhouse with your thompson you get 4 easy kills :twisted:

by **GTFO. al** » 26 Feb 2009, 23:40

Joesoef wrote:
GTFO. al wrote:i'm personally in favour of looser limits on all servers, including sniper and MG

Are you serious? Can you imagine winning rounds on Flash / Donner against (or with) 2 or 3 MG's and 3 or 4 snipers ?
It's all about winning those rounds isn't it? At least, when I play that's what I try to accomplish. Unlike 70% of the other players

dont need to imagine.

i remember when we had no limits on any classes whatsoever and it wasn't that terrible a lot of the time. the only real problems were when you'd get 8 MGs camping their 1st flags when under pressure but i personally wouldnt worry too much having 2 or 3 MGs and 4 snipers per team (on 32 man servers). on flash it needs scaled down 1 or 2 because its only 26 man.

one of the reasons why GTFO came into existance was because of excessive limits on other servers at the time. the problem if you force players into certain classes because of harder limits you end up with a fairly rigid and boring form of play where its just riflemen and supports running about. you also get more class movement with loose limits because there is more likelyhood of getting a sniper or whatever back if you give it up at some point. at the moment you get people just whoring a class the whole round or get other losers standing next to you waiting for you to die which is counter-productive to gameplay as a whole.

the point of the game is to kill or be killed and the class the other person is using isn't really that important. if assaults or snipers or MG's keep getting you then adjust your tactics to compensate or use mics with your team mates to tell each other where people are camping and over come it. i've always been wary of placing a limit because you get "too many noobs using <weapon>". it doesn't seem a bulletproof reason really.

by **Joesoef** » 27 Feb 2009, 08:02

the point of the game is to kill or be killed

I disagree.. The point of the game is to win rounds by capping all the flags. The fact that you have to kill and work together in order to achieve it, makes it interesting (would be quite a boring game otherwise).
But there's already too many players that play just for their own kills. Having more snipers will just add to that because 85% of the snipers camps with the sniperclass waiting for someone to run by.

If people want to play "kill or be killed" then I suggest setting up a deathmatchserver.

by **naknA** » 27 Feb 2009, 17:39

But to reach the goal of capping all the flags, you have to kill or be killed, don't you? :roll:

by **Joesoef** » 27 Feb 2009, 17:53

Not necessarily, you can also flank and sneak behind 'enemy lines' and cap a point. Gonna be a lot harder though if there's a 2nd or 3rd MG camping there.

by **Sephiroth** » 27 Feb 2009, 18:16

If a player wants to get a lot of points then camping with a sniper rifle is not a good thing. I myself don't camp with the sniper rifle as it does not help the team. Capping flags is the easiest way to get points too, and if you sneak up and kill the ppl guarding? EXTRA POINTS!

And a job well done!

How about a server with no restrictions just to try?

by **GTFO. G** » 27 Feb 2009, 18:17

I think the current restrictions are fine. They provide enough scope for those new to the game to use the 'easier' guns with 5 assaults being available. Similarly we dont end up with a team full of one 'easy' class. Other than those which are unrestricted, and generally these are the classes requiring a bit more skilll to be very effective with.

by **deathtap** » 04 Mar 2009, 12:44

The only good thing about being a Assault is that you can fist snipers.

by **GTFO. Sammo** » 05 Mar 2009, 09:09

Bet ya can lmao :oops:

by **Stop-loss** » 29 Mar 2009, 20:18

I say Ban the thompsons from servers like Flash.
The map is to small and u run in to each other very easaly, thompsons are a real pain.
U can just run into the cafÃ© or the left house spraying everyone without aiming or stop running.
It annoys me big time, it's just an unskilled weapon. Pfft, i know it won't be banned because it's virtually impossible, but the having the idea would be nice.. Lol, when Bunny uses thompsons he get's like 20 to 30 kills with it without dying, more skilled players using thompsons are an even more pain than the noobs who use it for the first time. Have to say it's a big relief to kill thompson guys who've been bugging me for a while with a well placed headshot.

Grtz, Stop

by **GTFO. Jamie** » 29 Mar 2009, 20:47

is same with every map. I cant move on flash for noobs proned with thompsons in doorways

by **SO-CK** » 30 Mar 2009, 20:40

thats wrong stop, having no assaults wtf !!! that would just ruin the game whenever i get bored and want to pick up some points i go assault id say 4 would be enough and to kick ppl like schultz and batta [proners] :evil:

by **GTFO. Jamie** » 30 Mar 2009, 20:55

the whole point SO-CK is that alot of people decide to go assault just because its easy to get points. Alot of decent rifle/support players now play assault exclusively. (for the easy points)

by **Troops** » 31 Mar 2009, 01:02

Just remove or lower points for assault kills then. rank whores wont use it then

by **GTFO. Jamie** » 31 Mar 2009, 13:41

thats a very good suggestion actually. I think it is possible to adjust the poitns modifier for specifc classes... Will see what G/Al think... not sure what its set to at the moment.

But considering how many kills that weapon can now rack up, plus the bonus for headshots, it needs lowering slightly...

by **SO-CK** » 26 Apr 2009, 22:34

Im thinking of not playing dods anymore its crap now over run by thompsons and mp40s i say get rid of them all :evil:

by **Miury** » 27 Apr 2009, 08:15

but are not they weaker now? When I played few weeks ago, I did a lot of 26dmg hits.

by **GTFO. Jamie** » 27 Apr 2009, 10:35

they are stronger Pura in my mind, and headshots are alot more frequent even at distance...

Seems to be more people then ever using them. Yesterday, there were players with snipers and mgs only willing to quit their class if they can trade it for a assault... is normally the other way round lol

Our number 1 player is assault only pretty much and he could never of got that high in the scoreboards if assault was how it used to be

https://www.gtfogaming.co.uk/hlstatsx/h ... er=143650#

by **Stop-loss** » 18 Jul 2009, 05:07

Sephiroth wrote:If a player wants to get a lot of points then camping with a sniper rifle is not a good thing. I myself don't camp with the sniper rifle as it does not help the team. Capping flags is the easiest way to get points too, and if you sneak up and kill the ppl guarding? EXTRA POINTS! And a job well done!

How about a server with no restrictions just to try?

Agree with you seph. I don't camp a lot with sniper aswell, only when you are in a good advantage point like the bookshelves end of street in sniper house on flash.. There you can easily kill passing by enemy's with sniper. Plus it helps the team. I hear Bunny saying a lot, "cover me stop!" while he runs to the field and gets them from behind.

Yesterday I played sniper again, runned around, noscoped a lot of ppl, cleared road from other snipers and mg's. Made us win the game many times. You still need a good team though. No use in running around with sniper if teammates just camp. That's what I like 'bout flash, close combat, even though you camp you die sooner or later. Haha! :evil:

Grtz,
Stop

by **GTFO. Ikari** » 18 Jul 2009, 18:49

GTFO. G wrote:I think the current restrictions are fine. They provide enough scope for those new to the game to use the 'easier' guns with 5 assaults being available. Similarly we dont end up with a team full of one 'easy' class. Other than those which are unrestricted, and generally these are the classes requiring a bit more skilll to be very effective with.

I agree with this... if I recall, in the old days Assault was unrestricted and that was far worse to contend with.

by **GTFO. OneManAndHisGun** » 19 Jul 2009, 14:59

I think things should stay the way they are. Noobs lying prone with the Thompson are a pain - but they'll swap to the support weapons and do the same if numbers were limited (and they do already). Controlling the recoil isn't that difficult to master.

I personally like the Thompson - I will always try for the flags and have a run at them. When I first started Dods, I nearly always used the rifle, but found that head on, running at the flags it was just no use.

U can just run into the cafÃ© or the left house spraying everyone without aiming or stop running.
It annoys me big time, it's just an unskilled weapon.

That's the whole point of the weapon. It was designed to be a close-quarter infantry weapon. Think about it for a second - are you saying that if someone runs into a small room firing a sub-machine gun on full automatic that in reality not everyone would die and it's not fair that such a weapon should be so deadly in such a situation? Read the wikipedia article for it's design and reasoning and you'll understand that it works as it should!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_submachine_gun

The problem in game is the long range it's been given with too much chance of a headshot. But I've found that at long ranges, you can loose off an entire clip and get almost no hits with it. Below 40 metres it should be dangerous, under 10 metres it should be very dangerous. But let's face it - it is pretty useless at long range because if it were that good, the sniper houses would be full of noobs spraying everything at the other end of the map.

Going for the last two flags on Donner for example. The combination of a big magazine, smoke and a nade makes it a good weapon to go for them. You can run straight at the enemy, blazing away. But having done this, many a time, I can say that it just doesn't kill everyone - it is so inaccurate that I could an entire clip to kill one or two enemy soldiers, or not at all. Compare that to the one shot kill of the KAR, which I've died from so many times in that run, when I'm spraying some guy, he kneels, aims and shoots. Around him there's a lovely set of holes in the walls, floor and ceiling, but he survived. Sometimes I'll get him and his mate first time, reload and take the last two flags - or not.

And let's face it - what pisses off snipers more than getting punched out?

Like all the weapons - it's their use that's the problem, not the weapon. Two snipers resolutely staying in their sniper house not moving, just going for points are a pain. An active sniper, pushing forwards taking out mg's, prone noobs and other snipers is an asset.

Rockets are just a bloody nuisance. Too much blind firing and points scoring with no skill at all. Why it's included in the game when there's no armour to defeat is beyond me. Should've had a flame thrower!

by **GTFO. Ikari** » 19 Jul 2009, 15:14

GTFO. OneManAndHisGun wrote:Rockets are just a bloody nuisance. Too much blind firing and points scoring with no skill at all. Why it's included in the game when there's no armour to defeat is beyond me. Should've had a flame thrower!

Without going too far off topic... Rocket class may be a nuisance to some but having been an advocate of it since I starting playing this game- I still think it is a very enjoyable and diverse class, as well as offering the capability to turn the tide of a stalemate.

Assault class has been routinely questioned in the past but I am continually satisfied with it. I don't believe their are any n00b classes in DoDS, but that doesn't stop people playing them in a n00b'ish fashion. :wink:

by **GTFO. al** » 19 Jul 2009, 17:00

i'd still loosen the limits for the restricted classes myself.

by **Troops** » 20 Jul 2009, 11:44

I don't believe their are any n00b classes in DoDS, but that doesn't stop people playing them in a n00b'ish fashion.

I think assaults are percieved as "noob" class because it has norecoil, requires very little aim and causes alot of random headshots to the opposite team.
I think the limits are fine, although i think having a two mg limit would be more fun and make it a slog for final flags

How many Assault per team?