Spawncamping

[GTFO. Bunny]

There seems to be a bit of confusion among members about spawncamping.

I'm not sure players understand exactly what this means , including some admins as well.

Server 5 Palermo is full of it and definately the worst, I suppose it suits some players to get their KPD higher and boost their points. I'm not talking about running past the spawn exit and killing a few in order to get to the next check point either, thats just war and part of the game. I'm talking about the players who run to the same place and prone or stand in a door way to get the players coming out of spawn before they can even see whats going on. They do this every round, every life and without fail. I know some of you say "but there is another exit , he can use that one".....so what do they do when both exits are camped ? and that happens alot in there, no one is interested in winning the round at all, they just want the easy kill. These same players will stand at enemy spawn exits and kill all day long , and as soon as their team loses the round they run into the nearest building and jump to spec.
I'm not sure how admins feel about this and whether or not they feel it is "good teamplay" I for one hate it when these so called" good players" do this, it shows that they are singular in their approach to the team, inadequate in their ability to read the game and cowardly in their gameplay. I don't consider these players as "good"

It also goes hand in hand with the guy who runs to the spawn exit with his sniper/mg and lies down inside the relative safety of his spawn and shoots from there. Again , i'm not talking about a player who has to pick one or 2 off to get out , thats just war and part of the game, but every round, every life without fail.

Admins, it's over to you .

Bun

[GTFO. TommyBoy]

Well said Bunny. 90% of the bans I hand out on Palermo are for exactly this reason - and it's not like people are not warned.
Stickied.

[GTFO. Jamie]

i think most admins already know and agree with this

[GTFO. kk20]

agreed. I have the same definition. There are a few maps that need extra care as some maps can directly shoot into "axis only areas" or single exit spawn ramps. Having an people pinning these areas need stricter control (thinking jagd and colmar here)

[SO-CK]

People dont have opinions here? post removed

[GTFO. Bunny]

by GTFO. SO-CK » Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:06 pm

People dont have opinions here? post removed

I'm sure we would all like to hear your opinion so-ck. It seems you have a different approach to this than the rest.

I'd just like to add that when you were a beginner, if you had been completely dominated by an mg or sniper etc . camped at your spawn , you would have given the game up or played elsewhere. You were in the fortunate position of having an admin father and myself to rely on if things went tits up.
Many players don't have that advantage and it is unfair of experienced players to continually shoot at the spawn areas every life, every round and do not take the flags which is the object of the game.

If you consider this as "good and fair" (see screenie), I suggest you get on the opposite end of it for a while and see how it feels. I know that if I had of had that sort of play against me when I first played it , I would have stuck to Sonic

[SO-CK]

on palermo i always play against spawn campers find it more of a challenge

[ELEA|Willyfxp]

I have to admit, I do do what bun was on about, killing 1 or 2 then capture flag then leg it. But the main problem I find that is annoing is, mg's sitting in spawn just waiting 'till u get inches away from the flag and suddenly no capture, and your dead. Thats a real pain, I find.

[GTFO. kk20]

Willyfxp - here is an example that is acceptable:

Palermo. Run out of side of allies spawn, shooting people whereever they are, capping flag, running back into side again.


here is a similar example that is not acceptable.

Palermo. Sat with MG opposite allies spawn ramp firing through flag at spawn whilst friend caps flag. Failing to move from that position probably only being killed after a few lucky rifle nades.

I fail to see why *anyone* thinks it is acceptable to continually camp people coming from spawn. Be that firing directly into the spawn ramp (as in the example above) or obliquely such as in Bunnys screenshot (or indeed obliquely across from the axis spawn ramp in Palermo for instance). I reiterate, there is no problem doing this for TEMPORARY cover whilst a cap is currently in progress. But sitting there denying people leaving spawn for extended periods is cheap. Remember! This isnt a league server, it isnt a clan training ground, it is a public server.

So simply saying "get the skills to leave spawn" wont happen - people simply leave the game and the steam rollering continues hence we need these discussions. Maybe a few of you are skilled enough to be able to smoke, nade smoked areas and exit spawns under a hail of MG fire but the majority of pub players are using default binds, default settings and no mic. Let alone using any sort of team coordination.

To reiterate a third time. There is no problem with people supressing defences when capping. There is a problem when it is obviously point whoring with no intention of advancing (as referenced by bunny when people do the same thing each round, each life without fail.)

[GTFO. kk20]

On a second note, it is also unacceptable to sit on your own spawn ramp firing out for extended periods. Of course you need to shoot if there are enemy right outside your door but setting an mg on the fringe lip on your spawn is a no no.

[NeonCore]

I must agree.. mm i played on palermo 2 days ago. And even if US players will warn or are just telling them that is not allowed.. then they will just laugh and will camp more and more .. but .. its indescribable how i feel when i will own them all on the beach. But should i post some pics or something when i see lame camp like that again ?

[Orv]

Kind of an old thread But if you see spawn campers, report it in group chat. Also recording a short demo and writing down their SteamID is a good idea, as that will usually take them down even if they leave before the admin arrives.

[deathtap]

If you guys are so against Spawn Camping, then I suggest you update your rules.

server-rules-t89.html

Makes my last post seem noobish.

grievance-against-gtfo-sammo-on-palermo-on-server-4-t8097.html

And there isn't a rule against Spawn Camping. I've looked and looked, and there isn't one.

[GTFO. TommyBoy]

If you guys are so against Spawn Camping, then I suggest you update your rules.

server-rules-t89.html

Makes my last post seem noobish.

grievance-against-gtfo-sammo-on-palermo-on-server-4-t8097.html

And there isn't a rule against Spawn Camping. I've looked and looked, and there isn't one.

If you cant see any rules against spawn camping mate then I suggest you read this thread again, it's spelled out fairly clearly what is acceptable, and what is not.

[Troops]

To be fair, it dont matter if its there or not you should know yourself that your doing it to piss people off and to boost your rank.
Palermo like anzio is a bitch for spawn camping, exit camping whatever you want to call it.
I can see both sides of the argument, one being there are other exits and it wouldnt bother me personally if u wanted to lame all day.
At the end of the day its gtfo servers and what they interpret as the rules, either abide by what admin says or go somewere else.

PS, steer clear of that Tommyboy on palermo lol, he`s sure to get ya.

[GTFO. TommyBoy]

PS, steer clear of that Tommyboy on palermo lol, he`s sure to get ya.

^^ take heed - you have been warned

[deathtap]

If you cant see any rules against spawn camping mate then I suggest you read this thread again, it's spelled out fairly clearly what is acceptable, and what is not.

This thread ≠ server rules thread.

At the end of the day its gtfo servers and what they interpret as the rules, either abide by what admin says or go somewere else.

That's is fine. It is their servers. My argument is that their rules do not specify that spawn camping is not allowed. The only reference to it I have seen thus far is this thread. If you read all the rules, even the ones that apply to DoD:S it does not specifically disallow spawn camping.

My bone is not that spawn camping is lame. I agree that it can be. My bone is that I was kicked from a server for 'disobeying the rules'. There is no rule saying that spawn camping is not allowed. That is why I am annoyed. You can tell me that it is lame, unfair (which I disagree with, it takes a certain amount of skill to get an MG all the way to enemy spawn), unbalanced, etc. That's not why I am annoyed. I get kicked for breaking the rules. What rule? Which one? So far I have only been told how lame spawn camping is. I think people are getting confused over why I am complaining.

As I stated, if Sammo had simply said: "Tap. Don't spawn camp." I would have left. But instead, I was kicked. What for? Breaking the rules. What rule? Spawn camping. Is a rule listed on their rules? No. In their DoD:S specific rules? No.

That is what I'm annoyed about. Two different issues. If I was kicked for being an ass, or even for fun, that I wouldn't have minded. But when Sammo accused me of breaking a GTFO server rule, I was stunned.

[Troops]

it takes a certain amount of skill to get an MG all the way to enemy spawn

So thats what your were trying to do all along :s i dont agree it takes any ounce of skill, just luck.
Your argument for being booted seems to be based on wether its a rule or not, which is basically all you want to know.

From my stand point not being in gtfo, rules do seem a little vague, but.. considering u play palermo so much and so skillfully am sure you know alot of spawners get sent packing in there, you being one of them.

The rules as i see them are general guidelines it would take up pages and pages if you were to list every single one,
imo i think you should just stop the laming now that you know.

Also i think you`ll find sammo isnt one of the strictest admin around, always been quiet when ive seen him around.

[deathtap]

So thats what your were trying to do all along :s i dont agree it takes any ounce of skill, just luck.
Your argument for being booted seems to be based on wether its a rule or not, which is basically all you want to know.

From my stand point not being in gtfo, rules do seem a little vague, but.. considering u play palermo so much and so skillfully am sure you know alot of spawners get sent packing in there, you being one of them.

The rules as i see them are general guidelines it would take up pages and pages if you were to list every single one,
imo i think you should just stop the laming now that you know.

Also i think you`ll find sammo isnt one of the strictest admin around, always been quiet when ive seen him around.

90% of the time I play on server #4. Since it rotates on all the maps, and the ones I love the most are the ones that GTFO don't have dedicated servers for (i.e. Kalt, Argentan, etc), it makes you statement moot. I have NEVER been kicked, nor have I EVER seen ANYONE EVER get kicked on #4 (with the exception of hackers using aimbots). So your statement is wrong. I don't usually play on the Palermo server. The few times I have, I have been decimated by spawn campers. Did I complain? No. Why? Because the rules do not say that it's not allowed. And even if GTFO suddenly decide to change that, I still won't complain. I am not going to admit that I cannot kill a spawn lamer.

The rules do NOT specify that spawn-camping is disallowed. And I am GLAD for that. Because it is a part of the game, and overcoming it is a part of the game too. While it does suck to be on the receiving end, when you kill a spawn camper, the feeling, the near-orgasmic feeling, it's just great.

What about Allies spawn killing in Jagd? If their objective is to prevent the Axis from destroying targets, wouldn't the objective of Jagd be to try and keep Axis pinned down? Then wouldn't the ideal situation be pinning them back to their spawn? There are so many cases for and against it, but it all boils down to forcing people to work as a team, and trust me, people end up doing it. At least on #4. Not sure about the other servers out there.

[Troops]

Caught doing it, get over it if you put as much effort into playing dod instead of doing complete essays over and over on ere then you may actually enjoy it.

End of the day its upto GTFO what they interpret are the rules and not you

I can only personally suggest you try it on flash server later, you wont last 2 minutes and i will look forward to shooting your crying face

[deathtap]

Caught doing it, get over it if you put as much effort into playing dod instead of doing complete essays over and over on ere then you may actually enjoy it.

End of the day its upto GTFO what they interpret are the rules and not you

I can only personally suggest you try it on flash server later, you wont last 2 minutes and i will look forward to shooting your crying face

While I agree that it is up to GTFO what the rules are, being accused of breaking a non-existent rule is unfair. I understand you want to defend GTFO members, but my point still stands.

Maybe I will try Flash server to fight you. Or you could just join #4 when Flash turns. I am not angry at GTFO or any member. I am just surprised that I was accused of breaking a non-existent rule.

[GTFO. Ragostini]

While I agree that it is up to GTFO what the rules are, being accused of breaking a non-existent rule is unfair. I understand you want to defend GTFO members, but my point still stands.

Maybe I will try Flash server to fight you. Or you could just join #4 when Flash turns. I am not angry at GTFO or any member. I am just surprised that I was accused of breaking a non-existent rule.

You were kicked for ignoring what the admin was telling you to do, which is in itself a kick/ban offence.
We as admins have the task of using our discretion to make judgements about the conduct of players on our servers, and have to exercise this with the best interests of the majority in mind.

[deathtap]

You were kicked for ignoring what the admin was telling you to do, which is in itself a kick/ban offence.
We as admins have the task of using our discretion to make judgements about the conduct of players on our servers, and have to exercise this with the best interests of the majority in mind.

Incorrect.

I was kicked first, then told I broke the rules. Which do not exist.

He accused me of spawn camping.

1) I was in one place for about 30 seconds
2) I died near instantly defending a cap which I made

I am not questioning your judgements, I'm not saying that you don't have the right to kick someone. If someone, anyone can please READ my complaints properly, I am complaining at being accused of breaking the rules. You're all missing the point. There IS NO RULE AGAINST SPAWN CAMPING in your SERVER RULES. This is what I am moaning about.

I am accused of breaking a rule that does not exist. As I stated before, if I was kicked for being a dick, or even for fun, I wouldn't have minded. But I was accused of breaking a rule, and that is why I am complaining.

So far no GTFO admin has acknowledged the lack of a 'no spawn camping' rule. Read the rule list yourselves! Am I right or not?


EDIT: I see you guys are just ignoring the point. I recommend that you alter your rule list to include spawn camping if you guys are so butthurt about it.

-End-

[GTFO. Jamie]

are you still arguing this?

[Orv]

We've been aware of the lack of a rule towards that for some time, and if you look around the forum you're not the first to mention this. I've asked to have a rule added, and now, I guess thanks to you, a rule about not ignoring admins have been added. (I am not saying that you ignored any warnings). This will also apply to people not stopping either camping in spawn, or spawn camping, when told so by an admin.

[GTFO. TommyBoy]

Ok Deathtap, you seem to want to argue this "rules" point, so here's a few of my points,
1. Did GTFO. Sammo mention "rules" at any point? Answer - no
2. Did GTFO. Sammo tell you the reason you were kicked? Answer - yes
3. Did you then proceed to bitch on about a "rule" not being present? Answer - yes
4. Was this justification for GTFO. Sammo to kick you once again? Answer - yes
5. *This is my main point* Are you seriously expecting us to believe that you have been a member of this forum for 1 year and claim to be unaware that spawn camping is not allowed? I cannot fathom that you have not read the numerous bans handed out for the EXACT type of lame play you were merely kicked for.

I'd consider yourself very lucky that you didn't end up with a ban, and I'd also stop arguing as all you are doing now is pissing people off.

[deathtap]

Ok Deathtap, you seem to want to argue this "rules" point, so here's a few of my points,
1. Did GTFO. Sammo mention "rules" at any point? Answer - no

This is one of those 'lawyer moments', right? When I asked where in the rules it was forbidden, he gave me the GTFO website. And it's true. The was no rule about it.

2. Did GTFO. Sammo tell you the reason you were kicked? Answer - yes

He did. This is the reason why I am complaining. If you had 'NO SPAWN CAMPING' in your rules
a) I wouldn't have done it
b) I wouldn't have complained, in fact, I would have honored the kick

Palermo is notorious for that nonsense. You guys must be banning people left, right and center on Palermo Dedicated because of this. Every time I play on that server, I get destroyed by spawn campers all the time. I didn't make a fuss about it because it wasn't in the rules.

3. Did you then proceed to bitch on about a "rule" not being present? Answer - yes

Of course! Administrators who disregard their own rules are not to be reported? I only did what I thought was right. I didn't expect the entire GTFO staff to misinterpret my complaint and gang-bang me.

4. Was this justification for GTFO. Sammo to kick you once again? Answer - yes

Under your current explanation, that Sammo was correct, then yes, my second kick was expected. Disobeying an Administrator is certainly a bannable offense. But you are taking for granted that I was deliberately disobeying the rules when all I am saying was there wasn't a rule forbidding it and being blamed for disobeying the rules was unjustified. At least that's the way I saw it.

5. *This is my main point* Are you seriously expecting us to believe that you have been a member of this forum for 1 year and claim to be unaware that spawn camping is not allowed? I cannot fathom that you have not read the numerous bans handed out for the EXACT type of lame play you were merely kicked for.

Actually, no. I was never aware that this rule existed, actually. As I have stated, I've been playing on your servers for a long time (longer than a year, as I didn't register on GTFO forums till much later). I played normally, but I have been on your servers long enough to know that I have been spawn-killed by GTFO members plenty of times, and never once did I shout "THAT'S AGAINST THE RULES!!!!11!!one!!1"

So, I wasn't aware of it. Why? Because there was no rule against it. That is all.

I'd consider yourself very lucky that you didn't end up with a ban, and I'd also stop arguing as all you are doing now is pissing people off.

Fine.

So, no spawn camping? Got it. Sorry then. Especially to Sammo. Sorry, guy. Free frag next time.

[GTFO. TommyBoy]

Administrators who disregard their own rules are not to be reported?

Please post the link to the rule that GTFO. Sammo disregarded.

Actually, no. I was never aware that this rule existed, actually. As I have stated, I've been playing on your servers for a long time (longer than a year, as I didn't register on GTFO forums till much later). I played normally, but I have been on your servers long enough to know that I have been spawn-killed by GTFO members plenty of times, and never once did I shout "THAT'S AGAINST THE RULES!!!!11!!one!!1"

At what point did GTFO. Sammo tell you that spawn camping was against the "rules"?
Your whole argument revolves around the fact that there isn't a set in stone rule that forbids spawn camping, there is a reason for this, and that reason is that it's up to Admins discretion to make a call on people spawncamping. The kick you got was to make you aware that what you were doing was not fair gameplay. It got your attention and you enquired as to the reason for your kick. You were then given a very solid and legitimate reason for the kick. Now in my experience of following these same strategies, I have usually been responded to by the person I kicked saying either "ok sorry wont happen again" OR having a hissy fit and bitching about abusive admins etc etc, usually resulting in a further kick and/or ban. You fall into the latter category. Admitedly server #4 does not have as much of an admin presence as the other DoDs servers, but when Admins are present, they WILL do their job.

[deathtap]

Administrators who disregard their own rules are not to be reported?

Please post the link to the rule that GTFO. Sammo disregarded.

Well... I can't. There isn't one. That was my point.

But didn't you say to drop it now? All friends? Hugs? Kisses? Tea?

[GTFO. Sammo]

This has got to be 1 of the biggest moans in history locked